Air cooled rear mounted V8s?

"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse) 01/17/2015 at 16:39 • Filed to: Tatra

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Air cooled rear V8s and why not?

Cé hé sin > Cé hé sin 01/17/2015 at 16:41

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Note that the jack and wheelbrace go in there too.

MultiplaOrgasms > Cé hé sin 01/17/2015 at 17:18

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Not sure if Tatraplan or late model T87.

Also OHC V8, because communist.

mr2gud2u > Cé hé sin 01/17/2015 at 17:20

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I have always wondered if fans on air cooled engines suck heat alway or blow cool air to the engine.

Tinfoil Hat in a thunderstorm, now with added diecast > mr2gud2u 01/17/2015 at 17:31

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Beetles and Porsche blow air, this is probably the same.

samssun > Cé hé sin 01/17/2015 at 18:05

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Why not air cooled V8s? Because if you can't remove heat as easily, they can't be as V8y. Air is 1/4 the conductor at a given mass, and 1/1000th as dense:

Heat capacity of air: 1 Joule/gram, 0.001 Joule/cc

Heat capacity of water: 4.2 Joules/gram

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capa…

kanadanmajava1 > Cé hé sin 01/17/2015 at 18:06

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In February a '48 T87 will be auctioned in Paris. The estimate is €125.000 - €175.000. It is nice looking not very accurately restored as someone has gone overboard with plating services.

Want to have the shiniest T87 ever?

Cé hé sin > kanadanmajava1 01/17/2015 at 18:31

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Oh, there are two auctions in Paris that week. Sadly I won't be bidding!

kanadanmajava1 > Cé hé sin 01/17/2015 at 18:54

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No, there's three. RM Auctions (4th), Bonhams (5th) and the auction in Rétromobile (6th). I'm preparing to bid in Rétromobile if the auction doesn't go totally out of control. I'm a bit worried that the auction has received too much media coverage and I cannot afford anything.

The transport might be a bit hard (or expensive) to arrange as my French skills are quite low. In the next week I'm trying to get quotations for the possible transport. Couple of my friends are also pretty enthusiastic for couple of the auctioned cars so we might get a group discount.

Cé hé sin > kanadanmajava1 01/17/2015 at 19:01

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Well, having seen the state of the cars you won't be driving home in one if you do buy...

I'm guessing at least some of the lots will go for crazy prices given the level of publicity.

kanadanmajava1 > Cé hé sin 01/17/2015 at 19:09

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Most cars haven't even moved for 40 or 50 years. So even pushing might be hard...

Some prices are likely to go stratospheric. I hope "the entry level classics" wont get much attention. I have eyeing for the "junior" Talbot-Lagos. Delahaye pickup would be awesome but I'm very sure that it wont fit in my garage.

Nearly all cars are sold without registration papers so they are going to cause some problems for the buyers.

KMNTR > Tinfoil Hat in a thunderstorm, now with added diecast 06/24/2015 at 15:07

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Yes, that’s right. However, the later 603 engine had two scavenger fans (which pull/suck air over the engine). After that, Tatra went back to a fan that pushes/blows air over the engine for the 613 engine.

KMNTR > samssun 06/24/2015 at 15:19

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Very informative! Setting aside overall cooling capabilities, I’ve read that it’s especially challenging to provide uniform cooling for all cylinders with an air-cooling system. Tatra engineers tweaked subsequent versions of their engines to minimize temperature differences.

In any case, a high cylinder count—so to speak—with a relatively small total displacement makes sense for satisfactory air-cooling; with many individual cylinder heads there is a lot of surface area for cooling purposes. But I guess you can’t easily make it as V8y as some American 5+ liter engine:-)

KMNTR > MultiplaOrgasms 06/24/2015 at 15:29

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This is a Tatraplan (T600)with a 2.0L flat-four engine. Some had a bigger-bore 2.2L. Actually, a few of these were fitted with the 2.5L 603 V8 (the aluminum-bodied T60 1 Monte Carlo being one of them).

samssun > KMNTR 06/24/2015 at 23:08

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I wonder whether a 6 liter V8 or V12 is easier to cool, the V12 having higher surface area per displacement but also cylinders further removed from airflow.

KMNTR > samssun 07/02/2015 at 18:20

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Hmm, That’s a question for the engineers! I’m guessing that the sheet-metal shells that typically surround air-cooled engines are probably optimally shaped and have the open ends and fans positioned such that airflow is as even as possible. So, it might just be that the 6 liter V12 would get better cooling overall. I don’t know!

KMNTR > KMNTR 07/02/2015 at 18:28

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Maybe there is a sweet spot where displacement, cylinder count, and optimal cooling come together:-)

samssun > KMNTR 07/02/2015 at 20:34

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I think that sweet spot is called a radial engine.